Celebrating 100 Episodes of The Practice of Nonprofit Leadership: Challenges, Lessons, and Future Plans

Christina Edwards: 0:07

Hello and welcome to the Practice of Nonprofit Leadership. No, I'm not Tim or Nathan. I'm Christina Edwards. I am the founder of Splendid Consulting and the host of the Purpose and Profit Club podcast. I'm here today as your host to celebrate. We are at the 100th episode of the Practice of Nonprofit Leadership, which is a huge milestone. So many podcasts do not make it to 100. And let me tell you I heard this stat recently 60% of podcasts have 10 or less episodes. So this is a milestone. I'm cheering you both on and we're going to celebrate with a little bit of a behind the scenes. I'm going to be your host, interviewing Tim and Nathan to get the real deal on why they started the podcast, what the experience has been like, some lessons learned and what we can expect in the future. So I'm going to turn it over, Bring in Tim and Nathan and let's hear how everybody's doing today. Hey y'all, Congratulations on the 100th episode.

Tim Barnes: 1:11

Thanks so much, christina.

Nathan Ruby: 1:12

Thanks for being here too, yeah absolutely, christina, thanks for being here and celebrating this with us. And wow, I don't even know what to say, tim, that's 100s, a big number.

Tim Barnes: 1:26

I don't think I could have imagined it when we first started. This thing Surprised. We got past one.

Nathan Ruby: 1:33

It only took us seven years to get one, so yeah, so let's dig in right there.

Christina Edwards: 1:39

So that means, nathan, that this is something that the two of you have talked about and have been thinking about and talking about, thinking about doing for some time.

Nathan Ruby: 1:47

Yeah, yeah, we spent I'm pretty sure my numbers are right seven years talking about doing a podcast. It was something that we both felt pretty strongly about, but we didn't know what to do, we didn't know how to do it and we felt really comfortable just talking about it without actually doing anything about it, and so Tim and I would meet on Friday mornings. Some of our listeners know Tim and I have been friends for years and we'd meet every Friday. And so I did some math, tim, and you know that math's not my strong suit but if we did 40 times a year so we didn't meet every Friday, let's say we met 40 Fridays a year and that's seven years. It's 280 times we talked about starting this podcast before we finally did it.

Christina Edwards: 2:39

OK, tim, the coach in me needs to know what kept you from actually like pressing record and putting it out in the world. What kept you guys stuck?

Tim Barnes: 2:48

I think you know we had a heart and a passion to help other people do the work that we have done. We've been a nonprofit our whole lives and so we have a lot of experience there and we enjoyed conversation, we enjoyed helping. But I think it was like will people even listen to us? How much work is it going to be? You know we both have pretty intense day jobs and so how is this all going to fit together? And I think we did a lot of planning. We probably got notes everywhere about it. But to actually first step out and say we're actually going to do it probably a little bit of the imposter syndrome in some ways. I don't remember how we finally I think it was actually during the pandemic, maybe that we finally said, hey, we've got some time, let's figure this out, let's do one episode and see what happens.

Nathan Ruby: 3:38

Well, and I think the thing that finally pushed us over the edge, christina, and I know you will appreciate this is we actually hired a coach yes, and his name was Rob Hatch and Tim and I Tim started following Rob first and then he introduced him to me and I started following Rob and we still do. But that was, we hired him for a series of sessions and just helped us think through what it is we wanted to do, what we were trying to accomplish, what it would take to do it, and then and I also think, a little bit of accountability of OK, well, you said you were going to do this, so where are you? At that, and I was like Tim, I hope you did something. But anyway, we got through it and I think once we, once we got that first one recorded and the, the heavy Tim does the heavy lifting in this, in this duo, because he did. Tim does all the editing, all of all of that piece, the, the what's that called Christina the Production part of it. He does all of that. And so you know we, we both have prep time getting ready, and then we record the show and then I'm done and I go on my merry way and then you know Tim's in that dark room with just his laptop, you know, and is doing all of that and so. But once we got into a rhythm of that, then that the second and the third one got easier and and then you know it just it took off from there. But boy, that first one was hard, getting that one done.

Tim Barnes: 5:17

So we actually and I know Nathan said this we actually paid Rob.

Christina Edwards: 5:22

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim Barnes: 5:24

That was. That was a big thing that we actually said we're gonna put some skin in the game and I think that made it smaller kind of a little as well. And again, rob wasn't a podcast guru Coach, but he just knew how to ask us. The right questions kind of go into our heart why are you doing this? And so then, how are you gonna do it, what steps do you need to take? And so. But I think the idea of paying for it was was really good and we've got benefit back from it for sure.

Nathan Ruby: 5:53

Oh yeah absolutely, but I don't think. I don't think. Without him I'm not sure we'd be where we are. I don't know, maybe we would have figured it out anyway, but for sure that was. That was what kicked us off to actually do it.

Tim Barnes: 6:08

Rob actually was one of our first guests on our podcast. Oh, perfect, so that was that.

Christina Edwards: 6:12

Yes, yeah, one of my clients talks about, like hitting the gas. Right, I feel like a good coach helps you hit the gas on whatever it is that you've been and wanting to do, thinking about doing, having that nudge to do so. I love that. That's, that's a. That's a great learning lesson, whether it's starting a podcast or just some other action. So let's dig into the why behind the podcast. So tell us a bit about why you wanted to do this and why you wanted to to talk about some of the topics that you address in the podcast.

Tim Barnes: 6:46

I'm gonna let Nathan answer first, because I Go ahead.

Nathan Ruby: 6:50

All right. Well, I think you know, certainly for me and I know for Tim too is a Profound desire to help small nonprofits. You know Tim mentioned. Both he and I have spent the the vast majority of our careers in the nonprofit world. Both of us, both of us have spent time in larger you know 10 million, 20 million dollar organizations with global reach. We've spent our time in those as well. But we've spent time in, you know, the small shop $250,000, your budget where you're the only staff person trying to do everything with very limit ability or skill sets to do all the things that you have to do. And and that is that's who we start. That's who we wanted to help. That was always, from the get-go, what we wanted to do. Because there is there's not a voice for that group of executive directors, and I mean, if you're, if you're running a major hospital and you want help on how to run a major hospital, or your organization's a ten million dollar organization, and there's all kinds of people that want to help those Clients and those customers, because there's big fees involved and and there's big money involved, but not so much, you know, for these small organizations that are at the local level doing amazing work with hardly any budget and with hardly any staff. And they're doing amazing things. And we know that they could do more amazing things if they just had a little bit of help, a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of skills To take them a little further and a little further and a little further. And that is food that. That is who this Podcast serves and that is who Tim and I have always wanted to serve and Tim.

Christina Edwards: 8:45

I would say one of the challenges I would imagine for that person is there's a thousand things I need to do, but what is actually a priority? What do I do first? And that's where the both of you and your expertise come in.

Tim Barnes: 9:00

Yeah, For sure. It's interesting that one of our most listened to episodes has been what does an executive director do every day? I mean the idea of there are so many things coming, coming at you, even in a small Organization, and it's just me. How do I get all this? How do I get all this done? And I think you know Nathan touched on it, but it feels like so much, so much of the material and the coaching and all that Comes at the perspective of a larger organization where you have, you know, staff that you can lean on and some of that into to say, no, wait a minute, we've been there, let's walk together and figure out how you can Do you and the small organization, and still have a pretty big, pretty big impact. I Think I would just say for me, I Also one of the wise. I feel like it's how I'm created as well. My heart is to help others be successful, to have an impact, and so I think both Nathan and I I appreciate Nathan's heart as well. I've seen him step into some really challenging circumstances and walk with people and I think both of us we really do care about people and we really feel like nonprofits have a chance to have huge impact in this world and they just need some encouragement, they need some skills, someone to walk alongside them, and I feel like that fuels why we take the time to try to put these episodes together.

Nathan Ruby: 10:38

Yeah, and as we talk to people and the people that Tim and I are coaching, or listeners that connect with this, and so often one of the issues that they're dealing with is exhaustion or tired or defeated. And running a small to medium size nonprofit is and I've said this before on the podcast it's one of the hardest jobs out there, in my opinion, because you yourself don't have the skills that you need. You don't have people around you that have the skills that you need to leverage, there's no budget. It seems like everything is stacked against you and that over time, that just drags you down, and I think that is. That also goes back to part of Tim's and my why is is those people doing this amazing work? They sometimes all they need is encouragement. All they need is man, you're doing great, you're doing good and keep going. And here's a few things that'll help you here's maybe a joke you can laugh at and just keep going, and so sometimes maybe that's all we could do, and if that's all we could do, then that's okay.

Christina Edwards: 12:07

I think to normalize it too, of like it does feel this way and it's normal and it won't always feel this way. Right, exactly, both in their ear, literally listening to the podcast each week, is a community, is a sense of somebody else saying I get you, I've been there too. I may be there too right now, but it will evolve and it won't always feel like this kind of sense of burnout or exhaustion and there will be seasons of it.

Nathan Ruby: 12:34

Yeah, because I know Tim has this and I had this week and in my day job and the phone rang and I answered the phone and it was this issue that I had to deal with and it was like, ah, you know, my shoulder sank because somebody just stuck a whole bunch of weight on it. And now here's this issue that I don't have the skill set to solve, but I got to solve it because I'm the executive director and we all have that burden. But you're not alone, and that's the purpose of the podcast is you're not alone and come be with us and at least for 35 minutes a week we'll hang out together and let's talk about some of these things that might make your life a little bit better.

Christina Edwards: 13:21

So let's talk about some of the challenges that you've experienced. So we're talking about some of the challenges that a lot of your listeners experience, but specifically with the podcast Tim, what has that been like?

Tim Barnes: 13:36

We were talking this morning, I told Nathan. I said I feel like I have three jobs. We're just talking looking at the things that I'm working on in my life right now my day job and then this podcast and some other things and I think that's I mean, that's part of the challenge. I mean there's so much, so much good excitement that comes out of it. But so you got to do it. You know, wednesday morning is going to show up on the calendar and it's like we have to have an episode ready to go. So I think that's been the biggest challenge, I think also. I think also sometimes frustration, feeling like, oh, I'd like to take this to a higher place, like you know, to improve this or to do that. Do I have the, do I have the time, do I have the ability to do it? So sometimes we're our own worst enemy because we want to do something differently but taking the time to do it. But I think that's been probably the biggest challenges for me just fitting it into the schedule that we have and making sure we have a good product that we're putting out there.

Nathan Ruby: 14:43

Yeah, and I totally agree, time is is an issue and you, just like anything else that's important. You just have to figure out how to work it into your schedule and and that's been that is evolved over the last two years, or a little over two years old, and so that's, and you know, your, your days change and getting through what you have to get through, and so that that's been an issue. I think one for me that weighs on me, that's a challenge is picking meaningful content and picking topics that are. You know, tim and I are both in our what did you call it, tim? The second half or the fourth quarter? of our career or whatever. It is the back, nine the back nine, that's it it was a golf reference, yes, so maybe even the, the, the back four, but anyway, looking at content that is meaningful to the listen, to our listeners. You know, tim and I have been doing this a long time and there is a. It's an easy tendency for us to look at a topic. What's a topic? Board governance and you know, tim and I have been doing this for 20 plus years and so what is what our level is is different than a Somebody who's been a executive director for two years and they've only had you know five board meetings. So that's a different, that's a different need. And so taking content and Taking it where our listeners are and providing value to them, that is that's a challenge and it's a fun challenge and and we enjoy it. But it's just, you know, we do this, this topic, and we do the research and we get ready and and we record it, and then we get done and one of us, no matter what, whenever the Record button is off, and then it's like all right, well, how'd we do on that was that? You know, now that was that wasn't as good. I wish that would have been better. Yeah, that was okay, and you know. So we immediately are evaluating ourselves Was it good enough, and so you know, I think maybe that's human nature, but we do want to say that never goes away.

Christina Edwards: 17:09

Like that never goes away. I think that that is human nature again, to just normalize. You know, wherever you are right in this minute, like we, wherever you wish you would be is fast forward. If you're there, you're still gonna be thinking that like, was that any good? Is anyone even like? I know that. I've experienced that. I've Experienced that regularly, my clients, you too. It's so normal and it just like just to be like oh yeah, they're there. Is that chatter again?

Nathan Ruby: 17:35

Yeah, well, and and you know when we're and when we're picking content We've done this is our hundredth episode. So a lot of times we'll say, well, what about? This is a topic, and it's like, what did we cover that? It's like, yeah, I think that was like episode 28 or 26 or whatever. And so then we go back and Over the last couple of months We've gone back, we've gotten all of our episodes have been transcribed. So now there's this transcription that's been up, which is helpful, but it's sometimes it's. It can be just like a whole bunch of words, you know it's. And so every once I'll go back and say, okay, I think we listen, we talked about this, but what did we talk about specifically? So I'll go back to episode whatever and then I'll listen to it and it's like, oh man, that's, that's horrible. How did we? How did we let that go? And and so anyway.

Christina Edwards: 18:25

So there's a little bit of that, okay as somebody who has listened to your podcast, that's not true. I've listened to it and been like this is gold. You are your own worst critic, for sure, and I thought you were gonna say the opposite, nathan. I thought you're gonna be like you listen back to it. You're like this is good. If there's anything I can, I can make you do after today's interview is celebrate yourself. Because I have listened to several of the episodes where it is not my zone, it is not my expertise, and I'm like oh, what do they have to say on this? And I'm like this is like, this is spot on.

Tim Barnes: 19:01

So I just want to say too I think one of the fun things that's happened is that we actually learn from each other, oh yeah. So it's like one of us will say why, how did you come up with that? I want I gotta write that down because I'm gonna, you know. So we kind of surprise ourselves In our experience and the things we're learning we're sharing together, and so we do a lot of learning together. Then we take that and share it with with other people.

Christina Edwards: 19:29

I love that. Let's celebrate some wins. So we celebrated some, or we we heard some criticism.

Nathan Ruby: 19:40

I know, for Tim and I, the biggest win we get is when we have somebody that emails us, it reaches out to us and just says, hey, I listened to whatever episode and it really helped, or it really, you know, it really made a difference. This is what I learned and that is like, oh man, that that's why we're, that's why we're doing this, and I don't think there's any bigger win than that, tim, I Would.

Tim Barnes: 20:07

I would agree. Two things come to mind. One is I remember talking to somebody on the phone who was looking for you know hoodlisten podcast and and and. So we got on the phone and the person goes I Recognize your voice, it's like I know you. Part of his like I'm sorry, but the other part was wow, people are listening. That that's cool and they and they and they want to know what's going on. So that that's really good, I think. Another win and and I just I appreciate Nathan's expertise in the area of fundraising, fundraising and again, I'm learned so much from him in our, in our conversations. But we we tried something earlier this year where we did a Kind of a masterclass over a period of weeks that Nathan led, I supported and all that, but that was, it was a little bit of fear, say, let's try this, but the connections were so good and I know with it, with a, I know some of the people have stayed in contact and we're walking alongside them and so just feeling like, wow, this is, this is cool. And what we did was we actually got them connected. So they were learning from each other as well as from us, and I think that really encouraged us so that was for me that was a big win. I thought.

Nathan Ruby: 21:34

Yeah, I was going through some numbers, and when Tim and I started this podcast, it was never about the numbers, it was never about how many listeners do we get, how many, and all of the jargon and metrics that you use for podcasts and ours. We just we weren't really worried about that. But I guess I have to admit a little bit, once you get started, then it's like okay, well, how many did we get and are we getting more? And which topics get more downloads than others? And so I would be lying if I said the numbers didn't matter, because they do. My competitive nature is kind of takes over a little bit, but it's still not. I will still say we don't do this just to hit numbers, but in case you're wondering what the numbers are, so, first step is that we started May of 2021 and we had zero. So we started at zero and then, september of 21, we hit a hundred. So we had a hundred downloads in the month of September and I can remember when we hit that number it was like, oh my gosh, a hundred people. Who'd have thought that we'd ever have a hundred people that would listen to this thing? And then, a year later, in May of 22, we had 225. So we doubled in that and they and all the stuff that you read on podcast says it takes about two years is when you really start to see the growth. So use that as a benchmark. So May of 21, we started. September of 21, we had a hundred. May of 22, we had 225. May of 23, a year later, 900 and then last month we hit a thousand.

Christina Edwards: 23:27

Amazing. And, nathan, I just feel like there's a metaphor here with fundraising. There's a metaphor here with starting a nonprofit and growing it of like it doesn't happen overnight or ego wants it to. We want these wins, we want the big wins, we want the version of the nonprofit that's 10 years old, has an amazing staff, programs are rocking and rolling but, that's not the reality of it, like it's. Talk to me about that, about how this experience is very similar to starting a growing an organization.

Nathan Ruby: 23:59

I think it's. It's showing up and telling a story and connecting with people. I think those, I think that's three of the big similarities. And and you've got to, you've got to, you got to do the work. And on the fundraising side, you've got to get out, you got to talk to people, you got to tell the story and keep telling the story and keep showing up. And fundraising is not a sprint, it's a, it's a marathon made up of shorter sprints. Yeah, but it's you just got to. I mean, you could take a major gift, you know, a $10,000 gift to your organization that might take a year or two years of developing that donor to get them ready to make that size of a gift, and so, and the same way with this, it's you know it was everything I read said two years and it's just almost exactly to the month of two years. That's when you know our numbers really started to hit. You know we're starting to have people, more people reach out to us. You know we've our coaching slots are starting to fill up, and so they were when they said two years. They were right on it, tim. What else to add? I?

Tim Barnes: 25:15

think also that if you find yourself in a situation where you don't feel like you're capable or you feel like, oh, I just don't know what to do, I think two things. One is there is so much out there, you know, there there are opportunities to learn and there are opportunities to develop skills that you may not be proficient in right now, but there's opportunity and there's also a lot of places you can go to get that help. So if you need to do a seminar, if you need to say, hey, can you, can I hire you just for a month to help me get through stuff, I feel like. I feel like we've done those those things, we've reached out to people and we also Nathan and I recognize each other skills and abilities. So when we are facing things in the podcast in the same way with your organization, it's like, nathan, I think you're the best one to step into this because you have that experience, you have that skills, knowing, knowing who you are and leaning into that. But also being ready to work on those skills and show up and grow is a big part of the experience, both as you bleed an organization or if you're doing a podcast.

Christina Edwards: 26:30

I think so let's talk about the personal impact. How has sticking to this, launching this project, sticking to it for two years, right at the 100th episode, what have you learned about yourself, or how has it impacted you personally, tim? I'll let you go first.

Tim Barnes: 26:45

Yeah, I mean, I think for me it's helped me realize sometimes I'm shy away if I don't feel like I'm competent, and it's forced me to say, if we're going to do this and I need to figure out, where do I go, like kind of like I just said, where do I go to find out how to edit a podcast episode? You know what tools, what you know. So I think it's I like to learn, but it's really pushed that even further that I've got to figure out where do I learn to do the, the skills that are needed for this. So I feel like I've grown in some of that. Actually, I feel like our friendship has grown too, as we have to trust each other, as we have to lean into hey, we really committed to this project. So I need to trust you, I need to trust your skills, I need to trust your abilities. So that's it's helped me as well to trust in those situations.

Nathan Ruby: 27:45

For me. I loved, I loved doing this. I love, I love doing this show. I love the time I get to spend with my friend I. One of the things that it's learned, or that I've learned or have had to deal with, is I am a very 50,000 foot person, very on the vision side of things. Details just get in the way of vision and that's tiring. And the first 10 or 12 episodes if you go back to the early shows we did a lot less prep for those shows and we kind of thought that if we just, you know, we came in, we sat down and Tim and I live in the same community but we're on opposite sides of the town so we're not together in the same room when we record these, but we do. We used to do it on Zoom, now we use another platform called Riverside, and so we are seeing each other, which helps the conversation flow. But we just, you know, we really said that we had a general idea of what we were going to do and we just sat down and we did it. And then we went back and we listened to some and it's like, you know, that's not really very good. And so then we started to do more prep work. We figured out, we called a script. We don't. We don't use it as a script, it's probably more of an aggressive outline and once we started doing that, you could really tell in our shows when they got better when we started doing that Well. So that means to do that you have to prepare in advance, which does not come naturally to me, and so and then, kind of like Tim said earlier, it's like now it's every week we're doing a show a week and so to get that out on Wednesday we're recording a week or two weeks in advance, but every week we've got a new show that we're doing, which is constant prep work and that's a lot for me.

Christina Edwards: 29:56

I mean, I get it, Nathan, but you built that muscle. You built that muscle.

Nathan Ruby: 30:01

Yes.

Christina Edwards: 30:02

And I will say, like there's a lot of nodding along from Tim, From Nathan's end, and since I know you and we're very similar, Nathan, in that way, I see that it's like the thing that you resist sometimes is actually the thing that's making it better and leaning into, just like it's an outline, it's not a script, but this is now part of the process right. And then seeing that it's worth it but also knowing that you're like can't we just fly by the seat of our pants for this? And it's like no.

Nathan Ruby: 30:31

No, no, we did. We've built in some tools. Tim is a great tool guy. He loves his tools and we use. Notion is what we use, and so it's a Tim's a Notion expert, I'll tell you. But it's worked really well because we could work on it together. So we have our system in our process now and that helps, but it just that was a big change for me personally is I had to commit to doing the pre-work and the prep work for this to really be valuable for anybody to listen to.

Tim Barnes: 31:07

Yeah, and I just have to make a comment. When Nathan talks about being at 50,000 feet, which is so true, it's probably why we're good together. So Nathan will come in and go, hey, we're going to do XYZ. You know, we're going to do all the stuff, and I'm like, okay, nathan, we can do that. Here's what that means. So here's the steps. Well, maybe we won't do that, but again, that's part of our strengths. We see things differently. We bring each other maybe to the middle to the center. Yeah.

Nathan Ruby: 31:40

So it's good, and my thing changes all the time, because one week I may be having this and then the next week I come in and say, tim, this is what we need to do. Yeah, so we have those conversations a lot.

Christina Edwards: 31:53

Oh my gosh, I love it. Well, let's talk about looking ahead. What does the next year look like? What do the next 100 episodes even look like? What can listeners expect?

Nathan Ruby: 32:05

Yeah, tim, what does that look like? Tell me, so I know.

Tim Barnes: 32:11

I think one of the things that we have been really wrestling with is how do we build a community around the podcast? Because we feel like, as I shared with you, when people get together, they learn from each other. It's not just Nathan and I, and so one of the things, or several things, we're working on as we look ahead is how can we create opportunities for that community to take place. So the idea of hey, we're going to be on whatever platform we choose. We're going to be on this platform, like this night, if you want to come in and just come in and hang out, bring your drink, bring whatever, and we're going to talk, we're going to learn from each other. So we want to create some of those kind of opportunities. I think also, we're hoping, as we go down the road, to create more of the smaller classes that are basically hey, we're going to really focus in on one topic and some really practical opportunity, hands-on things. So that's, on our kind of what we'd like to see happen in the coming year.

Nathan Ruby: 33:18

Yeah, I totally agree with that. We talk a lot about building community and we've struggled with that, to be honest of what does that mean? How do we effectively do that? Is that a? What is that? And we really the podcast obviously is free we want to provide as much content and information we can to as broad a group as we can, and not we don't want to put a paywall up. We don't want to. We don't want to be marketers that are sending you seven emails and we all get those emails. I got one this morning, right before we started recording, and it just irritates me. I don't want to do that. And so we want to be able to create as much free stuff as we can. The other side of that is Christina You're, I'm sure you're doing the same thing is this stuff costs money, and To create an experience that's better and better and better it's, there's some cost to that, and so you know we we've got to figure, we got to figure out what that balance is, and so I do Think creating a community. You know Tim and I have talked about this for several months now. Like he just said of you know, hey, on Tuesday night, the 14th, we're gonna be on on Zoom from, you know, six to seven. Thirty show up, don't show up. Yo, well, here's the couple of questions that we're gonna talk about, so doing some more stuff of that. I think we're looking at a, a YouTube Channel, starting a YouTube channel. You know, we're not the best looking thing. What's the joke? We have a face made for radio. Uh, you know, so we're not gonna get. We're not gonna get people because of our, our good looks, but I have a few ideas.

Christina Edwards: 35:18

We'll talk about it in the green room.

Tim Barnes: 35:20

Oh.

Christina Edwards: 35:21

Create community. I will say one of my mentors once said free content isn't free, and so you're right, it's not free. And then the other pieces. I think community is just something. It's like we're all after it because it makes us feel good. We, we, we get the accountability, we get to normalize, we get to interact with the people who are also listening to you. Both, we get to, and so bringing people together it's, it's so beneficial, it's something that we, we want.

Nathan Ruby: 35:48

So have some ideas on that well, great, and we'll, we'll visit with that, and I think the last thing that, from my perspective, is is I am it's more how to, yeah, and, and that actually goes back to the back to the community as well. And so if you're an early career executive director, you know I I talked to some of the other day and they said, one of the value that I get out of your podcast is, I don't know I there's, there's things about being an exacter. I've never been an executive director, so I don't know these things. Yep, and I know that I don't know, and so I think we really want to focus, make sure that we've got a focus on okay, there's is today's topic, this is what you do or this is what you don't do, either one, but anyway. So I think a little bit more how to, and then building community. I think those are our two big things moving forward, that that we hope to provide.

Christina Edwards: 36:46

Amazing.

Nathan Ruby: 36:47

Well, anything else before we wrap up, any final thoughts to add from today's discussion you know I'll, I'll go first and you know, gosh Thanks is my, that's my big thing and I know Tim the same way. Just thanks for listening, thanks for hanging out with us. We just we love doing this. We, we enjoy the time that we spend every every week, the 23 minutes, 27 minutes, sometimes 35 if I get going too long, and but we just love doing it and we hope that we bring some value and we look forward to the next hundred and hanging out with you more in the future.

Tim Barnes: 37:27

Yeah, I, I would say the same thing. I'm just grateful for those people we connect with and for those people that show up and we just encourage you. We, we want to do a better job of creating space for you to connect with us. It's not always easy, and so we want to make that easier as we move forward and just encourage you. Put your questions out there, put your comments, what do you, what do you want to hear, and and and be great if you leave a review on whatever platform you listen to, tim, that was my line. I was like, okay, here I go, I'm gonna remind everybody.

Christina Edwards: 38:01

Great and review the podcast it. I will say it's one of those things that I never really thought too much of until I began my podcast, and one of the things that I did is I stopped everything and I left a review and a rating to all the podcasts I subscribed to. That, like rule of reciprocity of just, it's really important. As I said earlier, free content Isn't free, so if you're listening right now, pause what you're doing. Rating, review the podcast. It will mean I will be so excited for them and share it. Share it on your favorite social network text another Ed who is struggling and who also is just like I need help in this process and say give this episode a listen. That's something I love it when my friends and colleagues send me a text and they're like Christina, you have to listen to this podcast. Send them an episode that really resonated with you and we'll keep this growth going Well. Thank you for letting me take over, steal the mic, play, play, host today and celebrate the both of you. It's a huge milestone and I'm cheering you on for the next 100.

Nathan Ruby: 39:01

We'll see you at episode 200, then that's right.

Tim Barnes: 39:06

Thanks for joining us today. That's all. We'll see you next time.